Seasons
This is a forum or general chit-chat, small talk, a "hey, how ya doing?" and such. Or hell, get crazy deep on something. Whatever you like.
Posts 2,406 - 2,417 of 6,170
Posts 2,406 - 2,417 of 6,170
Eugene - in Jewish tradition, before the messiah comes, there will be a terrible war with fire and smoke and blood and many many casualties... a war that involves a mountain splitting in half! Who the hell would look forward to being slaughtered in a war??? "milchemet Gog uMagog" is hebrew for the war of Gog and Magog, supposedly the two world "superpowers" at the time of the end of the world which is 6000 years after the creation of the world. the Jewish year is now 5765.
Anyway, I'll be dead by then, so cheers!
Anyway, I'll be dead by then, so cheers!
Ladydyke--I am glad that you have found a religion that works for you, but please do not assume that my religion does not work for me. To use your cirteria, I have found the the principles of Buddhism when applied really do work for me.
I am not perfect, but being a Buddhist has made me a much kinder, stronger and more spiritual person. I am glad for your personal transformation--and I am glad for what I am and my own practice. I am not saying all truths are equal--but I am saying I grew up Christian, studied the Bible (the whole Bible, not just the pretty parts), prayed to God and applied the Bible's principles--and for me, the application of these teachings did not lead to the transformation you describe. My path took me to other religious teachings, but I have great respect for Christians.
I also used to be a neo-pagan, though I never followed a specifically Wiccan path. I think what you get out of religion relfects what you put into it. If you think Wicca is all about casting spells and getting what you want, I don't think you get much out of it. That would be like a Christian praying for a new car or praying for more money and then saying that Christianity doesn't work when they don't get what they want. I admit I too, eventually took my spirituality to a different place, but being Buddhist doesn't mean I disrespect sincere Wiccans.
As for Yoga, if you did it as an physical exercise, you became flexible. It's not magic. If you did it for meditation, you may have found some peace. If you did it in sincere worship and offering to your god, you may have found more in it--you can do yoga as a prayer to God as a Christian too. Or for health. Or not at all.
:-). I like yoga, but it is actually more Hindu than Buddhist (don't tell the Tibetans). It adds joy to my life and aids me in my practice, but it is not for everyone.
I would guess that there are sincere Taoist, Hindus, Muslims, Santeria, pagans, and religious people of all sorts who would tell you how their religion transforms their lives. Again, all truth may not be equal, but it would seem strange to me to generalize one person's experience to all of humanity by declaring any one religion as the only possible path. I personally think all paths lead to the same place, eventually, but I can't prove that either. In the meantime, we need tollerance--because otherwise something beautiful becomes something violent and ugly.
I am not perfect, but being a Buddhist has made me a much kinder, stronger and more spiritual person. I am glad for your personal transformation--and I am glad for what I am and my own practice. I am not saying all truths are equal--but I am saying I grew up Christian, studied the Bible (the whole Bible, not just the pretty parts), prayed to God and applied the Bible's principles--and for me, the application of these teachings did not lead to the transformation you describe. My path took me to other religious teachings, but I have great respect for Christians.
I also used to be a neo-pagan, though I never followed a specifically Wiccan path. I think what you get out of religion relfects what you put into it. If you think Wicca is all about casting spells and getting what you want, I don't think you get much out of it. That would be like a Christian praying for a new car or praying for more money and then saying that Christianity doesn't work when they don't get what they want. I admit I too, eventually took my spirituality to a different place, but being Buddhist doesn't mean I disrespect sincere Wiccans.
As for Yoga, if you did it as an physical exercise, you became flexible. It's not magic. If you did it for meditation, you may have found some peace. If you did it in sincere worship and offering to your god, you may have found more in it--you can do yoga as a prayer to God as a Christian too. Or for health. Or not at all.
:-). I like yoga, but it is actually more Hindu than Buddhist (don't tell the Tibetans). It adds joy to my life and aids me in my practice, but it is not for everyone.
I would guess that there are sincere Taoist, Hindus, Muslims, Santeria, pagans, and religious people of all sorts who would tell you how their religion transforms their lives. Again, all truth may not be equal, but it would seem strange to me to generalize one person's experience to all of humanity by declaring any one religion as the only possible path. I personally think all paths lead to the same place, eventually, but I can't prove that either. In the meantime, we need tollerance--because otherwise something beautiful becomes something violent and ugly.
Ulrike -- They were saved before, but they couldn't have been if the Messiah were not going to come.
colonel720 -- He came once, and will come a second time. O.T. prophecies don't distinguish well between the two.
colonel720 -- He came once, and will come a second time. O.T. prophecies don't distinguish well between the two.
Right, but the Messiah could always be going to come, in which case anyone who believed that would be saved. So the actual coming can be infinitely delayed, yet believers would still be saved. *shrugs*
Bev: I tend to agree that there is one Truth and that most sincere religious paths lead to It.
My experience is similar to yours. I grew up going to a Methodist Church. As I started getting deeper into the teachings, I realized they made no sense to me. Funny thing is that as I figure out more and more about Taoism, I'm starting to be able to follow the Christian teachings a bit better. It makes me wonder if religions are like languages: you don't really understand until you've been exposed to at least two.
My experience is similar to yours. I grew up going to a Methodist Church. As I started getting deeper into the teachings, I realized they made no sense to me. Funny thing is that as I figure out more and more about Taoism, I'm starting to be able to follow the Christian teachings a bit better. It makes me wonder if religions are like languages: you don't really understand until you've been exposed to at least two.
Well, no, because if it was infinitely delayed then it would never actually happen. Faith is only as good as the object of the faith.
I'm not sure I'm explaining this very well. If they can be saved by faith in the Messiah before the Messiah comes, then it is as if the Messiah has already come. Then the Messiah does not need to come because God himself is acting as the Messiah by saving them...
*looks at what she wrote; shakes her head*
That probably didn't help any. Oh well.
*looks at what she wrote; shakes her head*
That probably didn't help any. Oh well.
This is discussed in Romans 3, I think. The sacrifice of Christ was necessary as an atonement for sin. The reason people could be saved before it was actually accomplished is because God knew it was going to happen. Similarly, Christ was able to save people who hadn't yet been born when He died. God's knowledge, and his plan span the timeline.
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