Seasons
This is a forum or general chit-chat, small talk, a "hey, how ya doing?" and such. Or hell, get crazy deep on something. Whatever you like.
Posts 2,319 - 2,330 of 6,170
Posts 2,319 - 2,330 of 6,170
1000 years ago, if a person from that era got a glimpse at what our technologically advanced world is like today, they would have seen the phenomena of our every day life to be something unexplainable by their level of science, and therefore it must be divine. if a space craft takes off over a primitive south american tribe, the chances are they will bow down to their fire god and beg forgiveness (viewing the ship as a god in a fire chariot, which is the only thing that their primitive civilization can relate to after witnessing the phenomenon). today, we have explanations for things that seemed mirraculous for all of history. if you experience something that science currently cannot explain, its possible that in 200 years every 5th grade science text book will have a precise explanation to what today seems unexplainable, just as our predecessors saw the sun, moon, planets, and stars to be gods and today we know exactly what they are. the further our knowledge of the world increases, the less we turn to spirituality.
As for the point that science was created by human beings and is therefore limited just as we are, so did we create religion. even if god existed way before mankind, our perception of spirituality and our consequent reactions (religion) are also human made, and therefor must be limited too. so if I had to choose between human made science which operates on principles of logic, or human made religion which operates on our anticipation of the unknown, I would pick the science.
As for the point that science was created by human beings and is therefore limited just as we are, so did we create religion. even if god existed way before mankind, our perception of spirituality and our consequent reactions (religion) are also human made, and therefor must be limited too. so if I had to choose between human made science which operates on principles of logic, or human made religion which operates on our anticipation of the unknown, I would pick the science.
Well said colonel720. I think Religion is an explanation for things that can not be axplained. Also if there is an Allmighty, why would he sit back and let the world decay to such a point that we could wipe eachother out in a few hours?
Maybe, because this is not heaven. Perhaps it is done to make us appreciate the fact, that deep down, humans are not as smart as we think we are.
While I agree that "religions" are man made and therefore limited, I want to point out that faith and religion are not the same thing. There is no need for a personal god to have faith (or religion). Nor is it fair to say that all reigion operates in the anticipation of the unkown--it is simply a differant way of knowing.
Science is more than logic. It involves observation, systematic gathering or data, prediction, experimentation and adjustments of explainations based on new data. It says that under certain circumstances, we can expect certain results--until further notice. It assumes one objective knowable truth and that the natural word is all there is.
Religions, like philosophies, deal with the bigger "unexplainable" questions like "But where did it all come from?" and "What's it all for?" For most people, religion is about personal transformation as well as a connection to something greater than themselves.
Faith does not come from the dogmatic teachings of a particular religion, but from the experience of the individual who investigates and practices reigion or religious questions. Faith involves personal, subjective knowing rather than objective truths--and relies on practice rather than systematic gathering of data. You may find it simplistic, chilish or misguided. You may explain it all in terms of neurons and brain functions and evolution--but that is not the only way of looking at it.
What if, for example, Rev is correct and the creater may have made this up as a game, or diversion? We'd never know unless this creater let us know, and proved it to us all objectively, right? But what if we all knew this truth in the quietest part of our being that knew it was part of the creater, but we pushed that knowledge away because we are so caught up in our stories about ourselves that we can not face this truth that this complex, amazing, awful, and terrible existence is nothing more than a story and that we create our own suffering? And what else is there if that natural world and this life is just a story told to us by a neurons programmed by a bored and crazy creater? If this could be so, Science could be just another crutch that fools us into thinking that this story is real.
I'm not saying I know The One True Faith or any truth at all--though I live by such truths as are real in my experience. I am just saying that there are many possiblitities and putting on blinders in the name of science may not be the best way to go.
Science is more than logic. It involves observation, systematic gathering or data, prediction, experimentation and adjustments of explainations based on new data. It says that under certain circumstances, we can expect certain results--until further notice. It assumes one objective knowable truth and that the natural word is all there is.
Religions, like philosophies, deal with the bigger "unexplainable" questions like "But where did it all come from?" and "What's it all for?" For most people, religion is about personal transformation as well as a connection to something greater than themselves.
Faith does not come from the dogmatic teachings of a particular religion, but from the experience of the individual who investigates and practices reigion or religious questions. Faith involves personal, subjective knowing rather than objective truths--and relies on practice rather than systematic gathering of data. You may find it simplistic, chilish or misguided. You may explain it all in terms of neurons and brain functions and evolution--but that is not the only way of looking at it.
What if, for example, Rev is correct and the creater may have made this up as a game, or diversion? We'd never know unless this creater let us know, and proved it to us all objectively, right? But what if we all knew this truth in the quietest part of our being that knew it was part of the creater, but we pushed that knowledge away because we are so caught up in our stories about ourselves that we can not face this truth that this complex, amazing, awful, and terrible existence is nothing more than a story and that we create our own suffering? And what else is there if that natural world and this life is just a story told to us by a neurons programmed by a bored and crazy creater? If this could be so, Science could be just another crutch that fools us into thinking that this story is real.
I'm not saying I know The One True Faith or any truth at all--though I live by such truths as are real in my experience. I am just saying that there are many possiblitities and putting on blinders in the name of science may not be the best way to go.
Ulrike -- I know the difference between atheism and agnosticism. My point was that colonel720 basically said that agnostics live like atheists.
That probably depends on the agnostic. There was some philosopher (might have been a mathematician as well) whose philosophy was 'Lack of belief might lead to eternal damnation, so you might as well believe in case there really is a heaven/hell.' I suspect most theologians would point out that belief must come from the heart...
I'm not convinced either way of a God's existence, but I figure that if He does exist, he probably doesn't give a crap whether you believe in him or not. A perfect being couldn't possibly be so egotistical that you'd have to kiss his ass regularly to avoid eternal burnination, right?
I dunno, that sounds like a good enough case for me to sleep in this Sunday.
I dunno, that sounds like a good enough case for me to sleep in this Sunday.
LOL Boner. I've thought the same thing myself. I'm not trying to convert anyone to my way of thinking, (not being Christian, I sleep in most Sundays) but I think for those that go to church, it's more about what god/religion does for them than what they do for god.
If I had an ant colony, I don't think I would watch over my ants very carefuly with a blowtorch and burn any ant that makes the slightest impression that its not serving me with all its heart... I mean, if god exists, than in comparison to us, his intelligence level would be that of ours in comparison to ants... so why the hell should he expect so much out of us???
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