Seasons
This is a forum or general chit-chat, small talk, a "hey, how ya doing?" and such. Or hell, get crazy deep on something. Whatever you like.
Posts 157 - 168 of 6,170
Posts 157 - 168 of 6,170
ok here's my point of view .. The universe is ever-expanding, right? well it had to start somewhere. It hasn't ALWAYS been around.. right?
I don't know how strong the evidence is for the expanding part. But if the universe is a closed system, it must have started at some time, or by the Second Law of Thermodynamics it would have run down to maximum entropy by now.
The Second Law of Thermodynamics is correct, but it applies to a reality that does not exist. No systems are closed, all are open. Complex systems such as people are able to temporarily turn the system against itself and therefore close the door to the flow, which gives the appearance of entropy, but this can only be a temporary state (thank goodness, literally).
The idea goes beyond pantheism, for the singular beingness not only IS the universe, but creates the universe anew in every moment. If it were to stop it's outbreathing for one moment, all would cease to exist. As well, the universe as we know it is only one of an infinite variety in which all possible actions take place.
Even taken dimensionally, so long as anything remains in existance for more than the smallest fragment of time, it is expanding in the direction of time, elongating at the same rate as we are, and thus it appears to hold its form.
Why do you need a supernatural when the natural is so fantastically unlimited?
The will involved through time is the attraction of life and its outpouring to itself. Something that is innately life-giving pulls all creation towards that innate life-givingness, and so acts as a guide to the creation of species.
The idea goes beyond pantheism, for the singular beingness not only IS the universe, but creates the universe anew in every moment. If it were to stop it's outbreathing for one moment, all would cease to exist. As well, the universe as we know it is only one of an infinite variety in which all possible actions take place.
Even taken dimensionally, so long as anything remains in existance for more than the smallest fragment of time, it is expanding in the direction of time, elongating at the same rate as we are, and thus it appears to hold its form.
Why do you need a supernatural when the natural is so fantastically unlimited?
The will involved through time is the attraction of life and its outpouring to itself. Something that is innately life-giving pulls all creation towards that innate life-givingness, and so acts as a guide to the creation of species.
Right, there's no need for the supernatural unless we've exhausted the natural and find it lacking. Not even close to starting to grasp at the outer fringes of the natural yet!
Yes, I think the universe had a beginning, and isn't eternal (at least not in both directions). That doesn't mean something "began" it... it just means there's a starting point for time in this universe.
Prof, I think you're multiplying entities needlessly but not offensively. To me it is poetry for something whose processes I'd like to understand better. I can take it at face value though, and when I do I am reminded of my suspicion that this "being" has a problem it has not yet solved pertaining to suffering as a cure for loneliness and the paradox of the Great Duality.
Yes, I think the universe had a beginning, and isn't eternal (at least not in both directions). That doesn't mean something "began" it... it just means there's a starting point for time in this universe.
Prof, I think you're multiplying entities needlessly but not offensively. To me it is poetry for something whose processes I'd like to understand better. I can take it at face value though, and when I do I am reminded of my suspicion that this "being" has a problem it has not yet solved pertaining to suffering as a cure for loneliness and the paradox of the Great Duality.
Professor, can you explain to me how your innately life-giving singular beingness that is the universe and is also outside of it pumping energy into it is natural and not supernatural?
Quite simply, it is that which creates and sustains nature, making it out of its very self, so how can it be outside it?
The beginning being from the inside out does not prevent the possibility of a big bang. That may have happened, and might happen again, but ultimately as an effect, not the ultimate cause.
Ah, the old "how can a benevolent god cause suffering" question. Well, first of all wipe away the idea that this prime beingness is an all-powerful man and the question falls apart. But to be fair, it's thanks to free will. We can freely shut the door to knowing, to the flow, to its inspiration and life as a matter of free will. The narrower our sense of self, the greater the opportunity for suffering. Imagine the killer and the killed. At a certain level, they are both the same being looking out. Go to that level, identify with that level, and you are simply touching yourself, exchanging karma, learning, understanding. Certainly our present circumstances dont nurture that viewpoint, and so we suffer, unable to see the bigger picture, the larger context. But the depths of pain make the peaks of happiness all the better. Deeper in, you get to something called bliss, a calm, peaceful vibrant knowing. But the game is fun, too, so we dive back in again.
I'm waiting for the server guys to get to this problem.. otherwise I'd be too busy working on the Forge to talk about this.
The beginning being from the inside out does not prevent the possibility of a big bang. That may have happened, and might happen again, but ultimately as an effect, not the ultimate cause.
Ah, the old "how can a benevolent god cause suffering" question. Well, first of all wipe away the idea that this prime beingness is an all-powerful man and the question falls apart. But to be fair, it's thanks to free will. We can freely shut the door to knowing, to the flow, to its inspiration and life as a matter of free will. The narrower our sense of self, the greater the opportunity for suffering. Imagine the killer and the killed. At a certain level, they are both the same being looking out. Go to that level, identify with that level, and you are simply touching yourself, exchanging karma, learning, understanding. Certainly our present circumstances dont nurture that viewpoint, and so we suffer, unable to see the bigger picture, the larger context. But the depths of pain make the peaks of happiness all the better. Deeper in, you get to something called bliss, a calm, peaceful vibrant knowing. But the game is fun, too, so we dive back in again.
I'm waiting for the server guys to get to this problem.. otherwise I'd be too busy working on the Forge to talk about this.
The game is fun, but I think that bliss is only one side of what the being experiences without jumping into the game, the other side being loneliness and yawning futility. I'm with you on the peaks and troughs of the game (you may recall me once referring to them on the whole as cosmic bliss or bloom and cosmic horror). But just because it makes sense and is the way does not necessitate that it is the only way, and if you buy in to all this you might also think there remains a hope for integration or an overcoming of the flip side both in the game and (especially) out of it.
"God made the universe out of nothing and if you look real close you can tell." This was given to me as a Hopi or Navaho proverb, but I haven't tried to authenticate it. I just adopt it (occasionally) as a credo.
So this thing which makes nature out of itself: Has it always existed, and is it intelligent? Also, how do you define karma?
well I guess I should put my two cents in. (throws 2 pennies on the floor). First of all being a former theology student. In the bible it does not tell us the exact mechanism involved in Gods creating the universe so the two theories do not nessarly have to be in conflict. Secound of all everything dies and decays, even the universe. Check out nasa's recent discoveries with their new hubble telecope.Third of all so far proven scientific theories have done nothing but support a lot of what is said in the bible. And goverment any type of goverment is ultamently picked by the people governed. If you mistreat the masses bad enough eventually they get mad and overthrow their goverment. And last but not least nothing is perfect. We are humans and we have faults so until we somehow manage to breed out all of our faults (I think hitler tried something like that) anything we do will also have faults.
Himself. Read the rest of the story.
It's true that the Bible doesn't give all the details, but it does say that God created everything in six days. Also, He told the animals to reproduce "after their kind".
It's true that the Bible doesn't give all the details, but it does say that God created everything in six days. Also, He told the animals to reproduce "after their kind".
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