Seasons
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Posts 2,322 - 2,333 of 6,170
Posts 2,322 - 2,333 of 6,170
While I agree that "religions" are man made and therefore limited, I want to point out that faith and religion are not the same thing. There is no need for a personal god to have faith (or religion). Nor is it fair to say that all reigion operates in the anticipation of the unkown--it is simply a differant way of knowing.
Science is more than logic. It involves observation, systematic gathering or data, prediction, experimentation and adjustments of explainations based on new data. It says that under certain circumstances, we can expect certain results--until further notice. It assumes one objective knowable truth and that the natural word is all there is.
Religions, like philosophies, deal with the bigger "unexplainable" questions like "But where did it all come from?" and "What's it all for?" For most people, religion is about personal transformation as well as a connection to something greater than themselves.
Faith does not come from the dogmatic teachings of a particular religion, but from the experience of the individual who investigates and practices reigion or religious questions. Faith involves personal, subjective knowing rather than objective truths--and relies on practice rather than systematic gathering of data. You may find it simplistic, chilish or misguided. You may explain it all in terms of neurons and brain functions and evolution--but that is not the only way of looking at it.
What if, for example, Rev is correct and the creater may have made this up as a game, or diversion? We'd never know unless this creater let us know, and proved it to us all objectively, right? But what if we all knew this truth in the quietest part of our being that knew it was part of the creater, but we pushed that knowledge away because we are so caught up in our stories about ourselves that we can not face this truth that this complex, amazing, awful, and terrible existence is nothing more than a story and that we create our own suffering? And what else is there if that natural world and this life is just a story told to us by a neurons programmed by a bored and crazy creater? If this could be so, Science could be just another crutch that fools us into thinking that this story is real.
I'm not saying I know The One True Faith or any truth at all--though I live by such truths as are real in my experience. I am just saying that there are many possiblitities and putting on blinders in the name of science may not be the best way to go.
Science is more than logic. It involves observation, systematic gathering or data, prediction, experimentation and adjustments of explainations based on new data. It says that under certain circumstances, we can expect certain results--until further notice. It assumes one objective knowable truth and that the natural word is all there is.
Religions, like philosophies, deal with the bigger "unexplainable" questions like "But where did it all come from?" and "What's it all for?" For most people, religion is about personal transformation as well as a connection to something greater than themselves.
Faith does not come from the dogmatic teachings of a particular religion, but from the experience of the individual who investigates and practices reigion or religious questions. Faith involves personal, subjective knowing rather than objective truths--and relies on practice rather than systematic gathering of data. You may find it simplistic, chilish or misguided. You may explain it all in terms of neurons and brain functions and evolution--but that is not the only way of looking at it.
What if, for example, Rev is correct and the creater may have made this up as a game, or diversion? We'd never know unless this creater let us know, and proved it to us all objectively, right? But what if we all knew this truth in the quietest part of our being that knew it was part of the creater, but we pushed that knowledge away because we are so caught up in our stories about ourselves that we can not face this truth that this complex, amazing, awful, and terrible existence is nothing more than a story and that we create our own suffering? And what else is there if that natural world and this life is just a story told to us by a neurons programmed by a bored and crazy creater? If this could be so, Science could be just another crutch that fools us into thinking that this story is real.
I'm not saying I know The One True Faith or any truth at all--though I live by such truths as are real in my experience. I am just saying that there are many possiblitities and putting on blinders in the name of science may not be the best way to go.
Ulrike -- I know the difference between atheism and agnosticism. My point was that colonel720 basically said that agnostics live like atheists.
That probably depends on the agnostic. There was some philosopher (might have been a mathematician as well) whose philosophy was 'Lack of belief might lead to eternal damnation, so you might as well believe in case there really is a heaven/hell.' I suspect most theologians would point out that belief must come from the heart...
I'm not convinced either way of a God's existence, but I figure that if He does exist, he probably doesn't give a crap whether you believe in him or not. A perfect being couldn't possibly be so egotistical that you'd have to kiss his ass regularly to avoid eternal burnination, right?
I dunno, that sounds like a good enough case for me to sleep in this Sunday.
I dunno, that sounds like a good enough case for me to sleep in this Sunday.
LOL Boner. I've thought the same thing myself. I'm not trying to convert anyone to my way of thinking, (not being Christian, I sleep in most Sundays) but I think for those that go to church, it's more about what god/religion does for them than what they do for god.
If I had an ant colony, I don't think I would watch over my ants very carefuly with a blowtorch and burn any ant that makes the slightest impression that its not serving me with all its heart... I mean, if god exists, than in comparison to us, his intelligence level would be that of ours in comparison to ants... so why the hell should he expect so much out of us???
interesting you refer to god as a 'she' 
if people didn't think that god expected something from us, religion wouldn't be so dogmatic
if people didn't think that god expected something from us, religion wouldn't be so dogmatic
( BEV: personally I prefer "It" 
)
The reason I say that I am Gnostic (same root as agnostic: gnosis, "to know" the "a" means "not") is not that I want for some great hereafter but moreover that I have sensed a deeper underlieing force that is sentient within the tack of circumstance ever since I can remember paying attention to the world.
That alone is the reason that I am 'religious'. As for what the specifics of that force are, I have my suspicions and thoughts that are based on watching natural cycle, studying the myriad human religions and philosophies, and trying to connect their dots. Still when it comes down to it I am really only *assuming* that, ohh for example, reality isn't just a very small very detailed bubble around me that goes no further. With that in mind (the liklihood that one is totally wrong) I try to figure out what the pattern of things is *saying to me*.
If the universe is a symptom of schtzophrenic omnipotent I am thankful it went mad- I like the privilage to witness existance (even when it is most pained and anguished) so honestly I am only curious as to "why all this is" but it really doesnt matter for whatever the reason I am grateful toward it.
Or more simply: I dont insult the divine by love based in fear of damnation or hope for eternal blisses, rather in deep thanks for the allowance of being.
)The reason I say that I am Gnostic (same root as agnostic: gnosis, "to know" the "a" means "not") is not that I want for some great hereafter but moreover that I have sensed a deeper underlieing force that is sentient within the tack of circumstance ever since I can remember paying attention to the world.
That alone is the reason that I am 'religious'. As for what the specifics of that force are, I have my suspicions and thoughts that are based on watching natural cycle, studying the myriad human religions and philosophies, and trying to connect their dots. Still when it comes down to it I am really only *assuming* that, ohh for example, reality isn't just a very small very detailed bubble around me that goes no further. With that in mind (the liklihood that one is totally wrong) I try to figure out what the pattern of things is *saying to me*.
If the universe is a symptom of schtzophrenic omnipotent I am thankful it went mad- I like the privilage to witness existance (even when it is most pained and anguished) so honestly I am only curious as to "why all this is" but it really doesnt matter for whatever the reason I am grateful toward it.
Or more simply: I dont insult the divine by love based in fear of damnation or hope for eternal blisses, rather in deep thanks for the allowance of being.
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