Seasons
This is a forum or general chit-chat, small talk, a "hey, how ya doing?" and such. Or hell, get crazy deep on something. Whatever you like.
Posts 111 - 122 of 6,170
Posts 111 - 122 of 6,170
We are the Borg. Highways are irrelevant. Dancing is irrelevant. You will all be assimilated. Resistance is futile.
I'll try and do this in order...
Eugene... I applaud your stance. You can go tell any scientist wannabe's that there's still lot's of room for surprises in our quest to find the answer to everything. But don't you find it hard to believe in ideas that have only been around for a couple thousand years? I mean, even though we don't have enough proof to give ourselves up to the theory of evolution, it seems to me that there's at least enough evidence to realize that what our versions of the bible have to say about our origins is kind of silly. Although there are good ideologies in the bible (and the rest of the holly writings and religious beliefs), I don't think even people who consider themselves religious actually believe in heaven and hell anymore, do they? Don't they realize the meaning of infinite? it just keep going... forever!
Moving right along here... Corwin, what about having simple tax brackets that make it so the big corporations pay a way higher percentage than companies who have rather small advertising budgets? (Say for example: 50% for the big guys and 0% for the little ones) It won't stop Levi's from sticking gigantic silver tabs all over our subway systems, but at least it will free up some cash for whatever organization we feel deserves it...
Now back to the discussion about capitalism. First, I'd like to clear a couple points up... I DO NOT have any solution that would replace capitalism, just as I don't think we should file our leftover bibles in the recycling. There are a lot of good things about capitalism. I repeat, a lot of good! Hi, my name is SirRahz, and I'm in love with my iBook... ok?
In my opinion, this is a mighty fine era to live in, thanx to discoveries and advancements we've made in transportation, communication, medication, education AND entertainment! Despite these great achievements, Crab, can't we agree that there are also some negative side-effects?
Next thing, the reason your confused, Crab, about why I want to give the government more oversight is... I really DO NOT want to give the government more oversight - that vision, we can both agree, is a nightmare! I think the government already has way too much power. I too believe that we should be free to eat, drink, smoke, snort and inject whatever we like, so long as it doesn't have too many consequences on the rest of society's freedoms.
Here's a something you said, that I'd like to respond to... [answer to "why the government protects the minority"] "Because there is a constitution that guarantees us freedom from government control over private aspects of our lives, like religion for instance, and because we have a court system that is charged with interpreting the law as opposed to hunting for votes. The government is not interested in protecting the minority, it is limited in its power to overwhelm the minority, and it is constrained by the rule of law to protect the minority using its executive power and police force. ThatÂ’s how it is supposed to work, and what makes this a democracy is that we have a responsibility as citizens to uphold this standard and improve it rather than sink into the mire of mutual bribery and mob rule."
I'll try and keep my answer as simple as possible. The court system is interpreting the laws that the government is deciding. The government decides laws to protect their "owners" who are the companies that give them millions of dollars each year in campaign funding. The government in return protects the big corporations, by constantly creating and maintaining a "consensus" through the media. The countries richest (the corporations, the media and the government) team up in order to keep everyone (ie: the people who get their info through mainstream news/entertainment) believing that spending and making money is by default a *good* thing and stuff like the constitution is there to protect us all. So in reality, we have actually very little freedom to maneuver, unless we are willing to maneuver in the same direction the big guys are.
Well... At least we both agree that this is a democracy that needs improving.
That "Saudi Arabia" comment is a perfect example of how much energy the media (shall we call them the 5% gang?) puts into brain washing us all. Anyone here been to Saudi Arabia? Anyone know enough about the place to be able to judge whether or not the control the government enforces has any *positive* effects on their citizens? Can't be worse than the bombs going off caused by the belief that we're all *free* to fight for our religions and our ways of living!
Our leaders put a gigantic amount of effort in making us believe that the rest of the world is wrong and flat out threatening! They simply want us to stay put. They want us to stay in whatever's left of our "private" lives and they'll do everything they can to ensure that the majority of us continue to hunger for capitalism's benefits.
This brings us back to what got it all started: greed in a free market, is what I think's causing most of the misery in the world today.
However, maybe we can just agree to disagree on that for now? As I said, I don't think we need to clean the slate and take it from a fresh start. A lot of people have lost hope to the point that they believe that anarchy can't be any worse than this, but I still think we can improve on what we've got. And, some other night, I'll gladly bring forward some simple (nonetheless shocking!) ways we can do so.
Although I'm tempted, I won't go into *all* the details about how I imagine the economy and all the other aspects of life (is there anything else?) at various times in the future. There are a lot of problems to solve in our society and I think most of the people here are interested in the ones related to our new SQL universe. I will say this though, over a long enough period of time, there's a solution to every problem. Luckily, both time and problems are infinite.
I registered www.cyber-culture.com and eventually I'd like to dedicate it to specifically discussing issues like this (some day... *sigh* ...the page that's there now, has been there since I registered it!)
For now Crab, Eugene, Corwin, I look forward to reading your responses!
Eugene... I applaud your stance. You can go tell any scientist wannabe's that there's still lot's of room for surprises in our quest to find the answer to everything. But don't you find it hard to believe in ideas that have only been around for a couple thousand years? I mean, even though we don't have enough proof to give ourselves up to the theory of evolution, it seems to me that there's at least enough evidence to realize that what our versions of the bible have to say about our origins is kind of silly. Although there are good ideologies in the bible (and the rest of the holly writings and religious beliefs), I don't think even people who consider themselves religious actually believe in heaven and hell anymore, do they? Don't they realize the meaning of infinite? it just keep going... forever!
Moving right along here... Corwin, what about having simple tax brackets that make it so the big corporations pay a way higher percentage than companies who have rather small advertising budgets? (Say for example: 50% for the big guys and 0% for the little ones) It won't stop Levi's from sticking gigantic silver tabs all over our subway systems, but at least it will free up some cash for whatever organization we feel deserves it...
Now back to the discussion about capitalism. First, I'd like to clear a couple points up... I DO NOT have any solution that would replace capitalism, just as I don't think we should file our leftover bibles in the recycling. There are a lot of good things about capitalism. I repeat, a lot of good! Hi, my name is SirRahz, and I'm in love with my iBook... ok?
In my opinion, this is a mighty fine era to live in, thanx to discoveries and advancements we've made in transportation, communication, medication, education AND entertainment! Despite these great achievements, Crab, can't we agree that there are also some negative side-effects?
Next thing, the reason your confused, Crab, about why I want to give the government more oversight is... I really DO NOT want to give the government more oversight - that vision, we can both agree, is a nightmare! I think the government already has way too much power. I too believe that we should be free to eat, drink, smoke, snort and inject whatever we like, so long as it doesn't have too many consequences on the rest of society's freedoms.
Here's a something you said, that I'd like to respond to... [answer to "why the government protects the minority"] "Because there is a constitution that guarantees us freedom from government control over private aspects of our lives, like religion for instance, and because we have a court system that is charged with interpreting the law as opposed to hunting for votes. The government is not interested in protecting the minority, it is limited in its power to overwhelm the minority, and it is constrained by the rule of law to protect the minority using its executive power and police force. ThatÂ’s how it is supposed to work, and what makes this a democracy is that we have a responsibility as citizens to uphold this standard and improve it rather than sink into the mire of mutual bribery and mob rule."
I'll try and keep my answer as simple as possible. The court system is interpreting the laws that the government is deciding. The government decides laws to protect their "owners" who are the companies that give them millions of dollars each year in campaign funding. The government in return protects the big corporations, by constantly creating and maintaining a "consensus" through the media. The countries richest (the corporations, the media and the government) team up in order to keep everyone (ie: the people who get their info through mainstream news/entertainment) believing that spending and making money is by default a *good* thing and stuff like the constitution is there to protect us all. So in reality, we have actually very little freedom to maneuver, unless we are willing to maneuver in the same direction the big guys are.
Well... At least we both agree that this is a democracy that needs improving.
That "Saudi Arabia" comment is a perfect example of how much energy the media (shall we call them the 5% gang?) puts into brain washing us all. Anyone here been to Saudi Arabia? Anyone know enough about the place to be able to judge whether or not the control the government enforces has any *positive* effects on their citizens? Can't be worse than the bombs going off caused by the belief that we're all *free* to fight for our religions and our ways of living!
Our leaders put a gigantic amount of effort in making us believe that the rest of the world is wrong and flat out threatening! They simply want us to stay put. They want us to stay in whatever's left of our "private" lives and they'll do everything they can to ensure that the majority of us continue to hunger for capitalism's benefits.
This brings us back to what got it all started: greed in a free market, is what I think's causing most of the misery in the world today.
However, maybe we can just agree to disagree on that for now? As I said, I don't think we need to clean the slate and take it from a fresh start. A lot of people have lost hope to the point that they believe that anarchy can't be any worse than this, but I still think we can improve on what we've got. And, some other night, I'll gladly bring forward some simple (nonetheless shocking!) ways we can do so.
Although I'm tempted, I won't go into *all* the details about how I imagine the economy and all the other aspects of life (is there anything else?) at various times in the future. There are a lot of problems to solve in our society and I think most of the people here are interested in the ones related to our new SQL universe. I will say this though, over a long enough period of time, there's a solution to every problem. Luckily, both time and problems are infinite.
I registered www.cyber-culture.com and eventually I'd like to dedicate it to specifically discussing issues like this (some day... *sigh* ...the page that's there now, has been there since I registered it!)
For now Crab, Eugene, Corwin, I look forward to reading your responses!
"[D]on't you find it hard to believe in ideas that have only been around for a couple thousand years?"
Many if not most of the ideas in the Bible have been around for longer than that. But what do you mean "only" a couple thousand years? You are contrasting this with evolutionary theory that got going in earnest less than two hundred years ago?
"Although there are good ideologies in the bible (and the rest of the holy writings and religious beliefs), I don't think even people who consider themselves religious actually believe in heaven and hell anymore, do they?"
Some don't, and I'm not sure of percentages. But I assure you that there are many, many Christians (as well as some people from various religions) who still believe in Heaven and Hell. Anyway, truth is not determined by majority vote.
"Don't they realize the meaning of infinite? it just keep going... forever!"
I am a Mathematics major, and I assure you I understand the concept of infinity. But I don't understand your point. I can guess at it, but I would probably guess wrong.
Many if not most of the ideas in the Bible have been around for longer than that. But what do you mean "only" a couple thousand years? You are contrasting this with evolutionary theory that got going in earnest less than two hundred years ago?
"Although there are good ideologies in the bible (and the rest of the holy writings and religious beliefs), I don't think even people who consider themselves religious actually believe in heaven and hell anymore, do they?"
Some don't, and I'm not sure of percentages. But I assure you that there are many, many Christians (as well as some people from various religions) who still believe in Heaven and Hell. Anyway, truth is not determined by majority vote.
"Don't they realize the meaning of infinite? it just keep going... forever!"
I am a Mathematics major, and I assure you I understand the concept of infinity. But I don't understand your point. I can guess at it, but I would probably guess wrong.
Right -- the universe isn't infinite as far as we know, for instance.
Rahz, that was interesting. I don't think it's impossible to come to some opinion of Saudi Arabia based on general information, and there are plenty of sources besides the Fox News Channel or even our own U.S. travel advisories... personally, the option to evaluate them face-to-face is not really there, since because I am Jewish I could visit only at my peril.
I definitely agree that our government needs serious improvement. It's just that part of that improvement in my view is better enabling capitalism, instead of supporting cartels like our own domestic oil industry, for instance, but also instead of improperly and inordinately taxing high-earners (and in a related story, instead of spending all kinds of money on things that should be handled by the non-profit and private sector).
The main problem I guess I see with your perspective (aside from your anti-advertising policy, which seems fascist to me -- certainly, at least, a heady example of government power) is that you seem to me less interested in a system (such as capitalism, or a body of constitutional limitations) than in some kind of utopian mutual-decision-making scenario where fine details of life and business are crafted to suit whatever are our best interests, as determined in some way I don't yet understand. In particular, you seem to be reaching for the highest potential collective human behavior. Call me a pessimist, or call me a social scientist, but it seems to me such a scenario is inherently unstable even should it ever come about, and that it is both more prudent and more effective to look to a system that (without judging) is based on lowest-common-denominator thinking.
Rahz, that was interesting. I don't think it's impossible to come to some opinion of Saudi Arabia based on general information, and there are plenty of sources besides the Fox News Channel or even our own U.S. travel advisories... personally, the option to evaluate them face-to-face is not really there, since because I am Jewish I could visit only at my peril.
I definitely agree that our government needs serious improvement. It's just that part of that improvement in my view is better enabling capitalism, instead of supporting cartels like our own domestic oil industry, for instance, but also instead of improperly and inordinately taxing high-earners (and in a related story, instead of spending all kinds of money on things that should be handled by the non-profit and private sector).
The main problem I guess I see with your perspective (aside from your anti-advertising policy, which seems fascist to me -- certainly, at least, a heady example of government power) is that you seem to me less interested in a system (such as capitalism, or a body of constitutional limitations) than in some kind of utopian mutual-decision-making scenario where fine details of life and business are crafted to suit whatever are our best interests, as determined in some way I don't yet understand. In particular, you seem to be reaching for the highest potential collective human behavior. Call me a pessimist, or call me a social scientist, but it seems to me such a scenario is inherently unstable even should it ever come about, and that it is both more prudent and more effective to look to a system that (without judging) is based on lowest-common-denominator thinking.
First, to jbryanc and his brass plaque, and others claiming their home towns as the centre of the universe, you are all right. I seem to remember my physics teacher once saying that theoretically speking, every point is the centre of the universe. So when someone claims they are the centre of the universe, they are right. However, before you go on the big ego trip, remember that the same is true for everyone else. Everyone repeat after me "We are all individuals.
On the subject of weather, at the risk of sounding parochial, I would say nothing beats the weather all the way down here in Melbourne Australia. Sure there is no point me telling you what the weather actually is, since by the time you get the message it will have changed at least three times. Melbourne weather is described as "Four seasons in one day." It's not a case of rain, hail or shine, but rain, hail AND shine, all in the one day and twice on Sundays. So feel free to throw anything you like at me in this forum, SirRahz or anyone else. I am fairly sure I can--oh no, I'm going to say it--weather it.
To more serious matters of debate, Rahz, specifically the advertising tax. I would say I would support the sliding scale idea you suggest. I mean if it works for income tax, why not this.
Further, I would have to say I would agree with the point you make about the government not generally being interested in minorities, but seeing to their needs (or at least making a show of attempting to) because of the protection accorded to everyone by the constitution and the bill of rights. It isn't convenient for governments to try and deal with a populace that is made up of so many different voices and they will try and co-opt and homogenise wherever they can, which is why I am glad that the founding fathers of our various nations had the foresight to protect individuality and personal freedoms.
On the subject of weather, at the risk of sounding parochial, I would say nothing beats the weather all the way down here in Melbourne Australia. Sure there is no point me telling you what the weather actually is, since by the time you get the message it will have changed at least three times. Melbourne weather is described as "Four seasons in one day." It's not a case of rain, hail or shine, but rain, hail AND shine, all in the one day and twice on Sundays. So feel free to throw anything you like at me in this forum, SirRahz or anyone else. I am fairly sure I can--oh no, I'm going to say it--weather it.
To more serious matters of debate, Rahz, specifically the advertising tax. I would say I would support the sliding scale idea you suggest. I mean if it works for income tax, why not this.
Further, I would have to say I would agree with the point you make about the government not generally being interested in minorities, but seeing to their needs (or at least making a show of attempting to) because of the protection accorded to everyone by the constitution and the bill of rights. It isn't convenient for governments to try and deal with a populace that is made up of so many different voices and they will try and co-opt and homogenise wherever they can, which is why I am glad that the founding fathers of our various nations had the foresight to protect individuality and personal freedoms.
Corwin--
"Everyone repeat after me "We are all individuals.""
Umm I'm sorry.. just waiting for Borg Collective to jump in and say "We Are The Borg. There is no individuality."
"Everyone repeat after me "We are all individuals.""
Umm I'm sorry.. just waiting for Borg Collective to jump in and say "We Are The Borg. There is no individuality."
Hence Crowded House's 4 seasons in one day... However, Holland doesn't exactly have predictible weather either
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