Seasons

Personally, I'm doing fine without religion. Not to say the rest of the world would be, but hey, I'm not deciding for you.

I also find it interesting how you used an anal probe reference in a heated religious discussion...

Yeah well it's never mattered which god (if any) you believe in, sooner or later you're bound to get fucked up the ass regardless.

What are remarkably dark view of the universe you have my dear.

Life ain't all sex & candy. If it was, we'd all have AIDS & cavities.

Always findin' the bright side eh?

If morality only derives from religion, or from fear and hope for the afterlife, that's a sad commentary on the human condition. That's not to say it doesn't fill that function for a lot of people, but that scares me almost as much as no morality at all.

It's a sad fact of life that most ppl, most of the time, won't do something unless there's something in it for them. I think that's a damn pathetic view to have of religion, but that's how a lotta ppl act about it anyway. You know, those go to church on Sunday but treat everyone like sewage the rest of the week types.

Actually I meant that in a broader sense though. Religion isn't the only thing ppl can care about that can give their lives meaning, it's just one of the more popular obsessions out there. You also see it in workaholics and ppl who constantly brag about their family & think they hafta practically breathe for them to be a good mother/wife/whatever. What does the workaholic do when he loses his job? What does the momaholic do when for one reason or another she can't take care of her family anymore? They become drunks or junkies or go crazy or just sit in a room doing nothing as much as possible. The focus may be different, but the simple act of caring about something gives us a reason not only to live, but to feel passionately about the way we live. It also causes a lot of problems, but then so does everything else and what good is happiness if you have no sadness to compare it to?

That's a good point, Crab. If there is nothing other this life then the only thing that matters is how we fill the time we have here right now. It's all we're going to be remembered for, and if each generation doesn't make it possible for the next to reach just a little higher than they did, what is the point?

OnyxFlame, that drives home the point that far more important than finding God is finding yourself. I don't think you can be a really moral or functional person (let alone happy) if you are motivated by fears and insecurities -- self-sufficiency comes first of all.

Corwin, I agree with you, but I think leaving the world a better place for future generations is just one derivation of natural morality.

By the way, what do people think about colonizing Mars? There's a number of people who believe this would wrong Mars.

IF mars had complex life on it and not just a few germs I would probably be against it. But since it doesn't I think the idea is cool.

Three points:

First, I have never killed anyone for not being a Christian. Nor will I. Not that I think anyone was accusing me, but it just seemed like a weird thing to have been brought up in the context.

Second, the existence of religious hypocrits does not make all religion false.

Third, morality makes no sense without some kind of objective moral standard outside of mankind.

Eugene, what do you mean by "morality makes no sense without some kind of objective moral standard outside of mankind"? Everybody should be religious?