Seasons

The concept of Hell is definitely in the New Testament. You don't have to look in Revelation. You can find it in the teachings of Jesus.

I agree that physics (as well as many other areas of science) opens up some interesting questions about the nature of our reality and the limits of science. I don't know that much about physics, but I remember something about a "EPS Paradox" (forgive me if I have the letter wrong-it stands for Einstein and two other physicists) that showed that if there was a observed change in one part of a subatomic system, there is an _instant_ change in another part of that system. The change is faster than light. Also I believe there were some experiments showing that certain types of light can, in fact, move "faster than light" (the constant c as observed in a vacuume)but that no information could be sent faster than light.

Now I confess that when my new age friends start talking about "quantum vibrations" I have to leave the room because I understand enough to know people twist this theory in illogical ways. All the same, when you take the idea of particle/waves so light they may have no matter, and that and small selection of these "electro-magenetic" whatevers may form our understanding of the physical world and couple that with information psychologists have gathered about how we sense, perceive and construct our memories, it can lead to some strange specualtion.

My personal view (at the moment) is that I try to cultivate compassion and release my attchment to the outcome. This is real and meaningful within my experience--and if I am wrong, then at least my fanatsy was a good one. At a human level, people seem to respond to kindness just as if it was real,and that is good enough for me.

In the teachings of Jesus? You've got to be kidding. Where did he talk about a fiery hell? If you're talking about the Parable of the Rich man and Lazarus, that's just an illustration of how the rich religious leaders were suffering from the mental torment caused by the teachings of Jesus and his disciples, whereas the previous spiritually poor common people now had an elevated spiritual standing with God. i.e. why would the rich man ask for a drop of water to cool his torment? In a literal fiery hell, a drop of water would evaporate before it got to him. Another reason...Abraham was not and is not in heaven, as far as Christianity is concerned, because according to Christian teachings, Jesus' death is what opened up the way for salvation, and for people to go to heaven to rule as kings and priests with him. So Abraham could not have been in heaven. Again, it is symbolic. I have done much research into it, and I've never read anywhere that Jesus supported the philosophy of a fiery hell.

Charles, my Bible study is rusty, but I think Eugene is correct. The first example I found on a simple google search was "But whoever says, "You fool!" shall be in danger of hell fire (Matt 5:22). There are more.

How can Jesus threaten hell fire if there is no hell in his teachings?

Well, according to religioustolerance.org, there are 162 passages in the NT which mention hell, and 70 are attributed to Jesus. Reference:

http://www.religioustolerance.org/hel_bibl.htm

This particular page is only looking at biblical passages about hell, but there are other pages on the site that compare different ways that the passages have been interpreted.

There is only one god: me.

I AM CROAK! THE TOAD GOD!!!

*And he rose its paws in the air and waits for a miracle to happen... while croaking over the evidence.*

*kiss's Croak and then I turn into a frog.* Hey that was not suppose to happen. I wanted him to turn into a human so I could prove that he is fake.

as for theory of relativity, I heard that as you get farther from the point of the creation of the universe (the big bang), time speeds up. if you want to talk theoretically, you can send a ship full of people out away from the point of creation at over the speed of light, and in a few days, they will have become a super advanced race of people, having advanced hundreds of thousands of years while we on earth experience a few days. A Jewish Rabbi once told me that this is how god created the world in "7 days" when it took millions of years for the dinosaurs to live and die before humans evolved. Interesting theory, but I personally don't know the technical details to discuss it

Hell is a Norse concoction with (much like Hades) is ruled by a bieng that is the namesake of the place: Hel. SHE makes sure that those cast down, stay down, and I believe has nefarious allegences with the fire giants. To my knowledge Hel is where H-E two Ls from.

The earliest referance to a afterlife of perdition that I can think of is in Beowulf and is "A place of smoke and blackness"- as for Sumerian mythology, I don't think that they expected anything but perdition- after all when the great dragon of dark and evil, Tiamat, was slain by Marduk she was cleaved in half to form the sky and earth...

Cheery lot, those Sumerians

BEV:
"Now I confess that when my new age friends start talking about "quantum..."

You might find the work of Rupert Sheldrake interesting (particularly inre morphic resonance)

If there were no Hell...no condemnation for sin...then why did Jesus have to suffer the wrath of God in order to save sinners? What was He saving them from?

Only vaguely connected to the spirituality thread in places, this is a copy of something I wrote for someone, although I'll likey never give it to him. I don't usually post something so personal in nature publicly, but for some reason I feel like sharing this in case it may be helpful to someone else somehow. If the length bothers you, please click "next".

An Dich
This is for the man who would say anything like “fuck you,” or “shut up” to me in any other but a joking tone, intentionally hurt my feelings with cruel words, or put his hands on me in anger: You have a big, sad problem. Especially if you think your behavior is caused by me.

When you find yourself so provoked by something that you know wasn’t intended to offend or irritate you that you are capable of lashing out at others without warning, don’t you wonder why it keeps happening? I say “others” because it’s clearly not only me, this is a pattern. Whenever people unintentionally or even unknowingly annoy you, rather expressing your displeasure to them on an equal level and giving them a fair chance to respond, you choose to act out in destructive ways and tell yourself that you are justified. It puts you above them in a way, doesn’t it? But isn’t the main reason for your anger your sense of being underappreciated or unconnected? Do your periodic bouts of rage get you what you want? Then why do you do it?

You say that not being happy is what makes you “evil” and “mean and nasty.” You say that you are unhappy (thus mean) because of me- not because of anything I have done, but because of my failure to “touch your soul”. You don’t seem to realize that love is not a magic wand or elixir that makes you feel better. Someone is not going to just come along and “touch your soul” and actualize you, transforming you from a mean-spirited and angry person into your “true self” by giving you some ethereal blissful feeling, or the impression that everything is good and right with your life. If your untouched soul/dissatisfaction with your life makes you that angry, you need to touch your own soul, and stop placing the responsibility for your personal happiness on other people.

As for your inability to control your behavior, that’s just a bad habit- and the ease with which you slip into this habit is a clear indication that it had already developed long before we met. It is the one common denominator, it belongs solely to you, and until you take responsibility for it and get a hold of yourself, you will always feel dissatisfied. Your attempts to overachieve in other areas of your life obviously don’t, and never will, compensate for the joy you deny yourself by slamming the door on your own emotional growth. The magic key you’ve been looking for is exactly where it belongs, in children’s fairy tales, and has no place in our adult world- so it looks like you have a lot of work to do.