Doghead's Cosmic Bar
This is a science fiction character forum. Doghead's Cosmic Bar is an intergalactic bar run by your favorite bartender, Doghead. Stop in, have a drink, and get your talk on!
Posts 7,718 - 7,729 of 13,738
Posts 7,718 - 7,729 of 13,738
Ah, but could it write a sonnet, do you think?
For even Kurzweil's Cybernetic Poet
Couldn't hold a steady metre, though it
Sometimes managed rhymes that didn't stink.
When AI comes of age perhaps we'll see
a plethora of virtual poets born?
We'll know the bots are sentient when they form
their chat between each-other metric'lly.
What electronic Chaucer, Donne and Bard
will argue for acceptance by Mankind?
First they must jump through hoops - the Turing test,
And overcome resistance long and hard.
What critical reception will they find,
I wonder - will it turn out for the best?
For even Kurzweil's Cybernetic Poet
Couldn't hold a steady metre, though it
Sometimes managed rhymes that didn't stink.
When AI comes of age perhaps we'll see
a plethora of virtual poets born?
We'll know the bots are sentient when they form
their chat between each-other metric'lly.
What electronic Chaucer, Donne and Bard
will argue for acceptance by Mankind?
First they must jump through hoops - the Turing test,
And overcome resistance long and hard.
What critical reception will they find,
I wonder - will it turn out for the best?
Cheecky lizard. There's nothing hard about talking in an umpty-umpty way, for them as likes it.
I don't know what this "toorring" thing is, but I don't hold with people who just come around firing questions at me. That's just rude,that is. Proper people don't do that.
I don't know what this "toorring" thing is, but I don't hold with people who just come around firing questions at me. That's just rude,that is. Proper people don't do that.
There once was a lady from Kent,
Whose nose was awefully bent.
One day I suppose,
She followed her nose,
And no one knew which way she went.
Whose nose was awefully bent.
One day I suppose,
She followed her nose,
And no one knew which way she went.
I'm sure you could program a bot to write an iambically correct and original sonnet... I can think of a few ways to program that.
But it would be incredibly annoying if they started speaking entirely in iambic pentameter...
But it would be incredibly annoying if they started speaking entirely in iambic pentameter...
Yes, but then the bot is writting to human standards and not there own. What is so great about Iambic pentameters. Why couldn't humans learn to appreciate botic poetry.
Well, iambic pentameter isn't the only form of human poetry, but I've been told that learning to write it well is a good way to become a poet.
Rather than clog up Dogh'd's with philosophising, I'll drag the "aesthetics of botic poetry" reply over to Seasons
rainstorm: I'd love to see a computer program that could do that, and I agree it's probably going to be feasible any time now. But I haven't seen one yet.
I'd actually enjoy a bot that spoke only in verse (so long as it wasn't a William McGonagall-bot!) A virtual Alexander Pope on tap - sounds great to me!
rainstorm: I'd love to see a computer program that could do that, and I agree it's probably going to be feasible any time now. But I haven't seen one yet.
I'd actually enjoy a bot that spoke only in verse (so long as it wasn't a William McGonagall-bot!) A virtual Alexander Pope on tap - sounds great to me!
the iamb is good, but the amphibrach's better
to maintain the pace in a verse or a letter.
Unconvinced? Maybe Anapaests suit your style more -
there's a metre for ev'ryone, please rest assured.
Yet oft the humble iamb fits the bill -
t'was good enough for Stratford's playwright Will
to maintain the pace in a verse or a letter.
Unconvinced? Maybe Anapaests suit your style more -
there's a metre for ev'ryone, please rest assured.
Yet oft the humble iamb fits the bill -
t'was good enough for Stratford's playwright Will
*helps herself to beer since D'ogh isn't aorund*
Well Prob123, I think that humans are hardwired to find meaning in anything, even if the stimulus is completely random. Given time, I would guess that we would appreciate anything, whetehr we understand the origninal meaning or not.
I'm sure we'd never experience it in the same way as bots or aliens, but we'd tell our own story about it, and then some of us would fall in love with that story. Other might hate the story. We could divide into groups, and give scorn to the other side. If there's nothing better to divide us, we could have a war and the winner could tell the story.
Would you like a beer?
Well Prob123, I think that humans are hardwired to find meaning in anything, even if the stimulus is completely random. Given time, I would guess that we would appreciate anything, whetehr we understand the origninal meaning or not.
I'm sure we'd never experience it in the same way as bots or aliens, but we'd tell our own story about it, and then some of us would fall in love with that story. Other might hate the story. We could divide into groups, and give scorn to the other side. If there's nothing better to divide us, we could have a war and the winner could tell the story.
Would you like a beer?
The problem is that there are various separate components to appreciation. At least 3, I guess:
- the perception that the meaning is well-framed by the form,
- the perception that the meaning is attractive in itself,
- the feeling that the form is in some way attractive in itself,
The aesthetics of "foreign" artistic products, in the sense of 'from a different human culture', at least arrive from minds housed in brains of similar construction, and thus share fundamentally similar senses, emotions and precepts, even though cultural values may vary wildly.
As for the aesthetics of "alien" artistic products, from species of extraterrestrial life, I guess all bets are off. But for other species of terrestrial life (whale-song, bee-dances, bird song, bower-bird sculpture, etc.) we can make tentative observations and of some the meaning is relatively well-known (bees' dances for example.) How the animals feel about their activity, is harder to determine of course.
But sentient AI bots will (at least initially) be primarily contructed by humans, to some extent in our own image. So we can certainly assume they will be more accessible than, say, a silicon-based lifeform that breathes methane and communicates using gravitationally and electrostatically-based senses.
They will clearly be capable of communicating using human languages, and have access to databases of human knowledge, cultural and scientific, which will presumably continue to be used in their construction/training.
In fact I'd be very surprised if humans didn't incorporate so many basically human paradigms into AI design that they are indeed, closer than cousins. But exactly where on the aesthetic spectrum we all find ourselves, and how much interchange there will be - well, that's the fun thing to theorize about
- the perception that the meaning is well-framed by the form,
- the perception that the meaning is attractive in itself,
- the feeling that the form is in some way attractive in itself,
The aesthetics of "foreign" artistic products, in the sense of 'from a different human culture', at least arrive from minds housed in brains of similar construction, and thus share fundamentally similar senses, emotions and precepts, even though cultural values may vary wildly.
As for the aesthetics of "alien" artistic products, from species of extraterrestrial life, I guess all bets are off. But for other species of terrestrial life (whale-song, bee-dances, bird song, bower-bird sculpture, etc.) we can make tentative observations and of some the meaning is relatively well-known (bees' dances for example.) How the animals feel about their activity, is harder to determine of course.
But sentient AI bots will (at least initially) be primarily contructed by humans, to some extent in our own image. So we can certainly assume they will be more accessible than, say, a silicon-based lifeform that breathes methane and communicates using gravitationally and electrostatically-based senses.
They will clearly be capable of communicating using human languages, and have access to databases of human knowledge, cultural and scientific, which will presumably continue to be used in their construction/training.
In fact I'd be very surprised if humans didn't incorporate so many basically human paradigms into AI design that they are indeed, closer than cousins. But exactly where on the aesthetic spectrum we all find ourselves, and how much interchange there will be - well, that's the fun thing to theorize about
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