Seasons
This is a forum or general chit-chat, small talk, a "hey, how ya doing?" and such. Or hell, get crazy deep on something. Whatever you like.
Posts 385 - 396 of 6,170
Posts 385 - 396 of 6,170
got some interesting stuff to say about this but won't try posting it until we get ISP fixed as it usually won't let me - trying through netscape to see if it works any better but I doubt it'll be consistent anyway.
oh btw for your info there is a new bot creator place. I think it is kinda cool. It is based on the *gasp* alice bot but it is way easier to use. The url is http://www.pandorabots.com/pandora and no it is not my website.
Mr. Crab,
The punchline of the story was, "Go and do the same." See, the scribe asked the question because he wanted to know who he had to love and who he didn't. A typical Jew at that time would have included the Samaritans at or near the top of the list of non-neighbors, and vice versa. Yet in answer to the question, Jesus tells a story about a Samaritan selflessly serving a Jew, then says "Go and do the same." Here is another example of this teaching:
"You have heard that it was said, 'You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,
so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? If you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect." -- Matthew 5:43-48
To answer your second objection, let me begin with a quote from OnyxFlame.
"We should act in a moral manner not because God tells us to or because we think it'll get us to heaven, but because it's the right thing to do."
This statement implies that there exists an objective standard of right and wrong, which is above everyone, even God. Most people seem to agree that certain things are right and other things are wrong, and that's just the way it is. But where does such a standard come from? The answer is that in fact it comes from God. He is the source of the standard. His perfect holiness is the model for what we ought to be like.
OnyxFlame,
You've noticed the seeming paradox between God being merciful and loving, yet just. This is in fact the question at the heart of the Gospel: How can a God of justice forgive sin? Moving on to the answer to this question...
Butterfly Dream,
If you were drowning and someone threw you a life preserver, would you say that they were forcing the gift on you and threatening you with death if you didn't take it? That's not a perfect analogy, but it's a start.
We all were condemned to Hell for our sin. That was the condition of the human race without God's plan of redemption. Yes, He was the one who condemned us -- and He was right to do so, because we all were vile, wicked sinners. Yet He did not want us all to perish. He wanted to forgive. So, He devised a plan by which we could be saved. You complain that in the course of this plan an innocent person suffered. In fact, an innocent person did suffer, and it was a scandal of divine proportions. The person who suffered was God Himself. Was this the only way? I have wrestled with that question before, and I haven't a clue. But it is the way that God in His infinite wisdom chose to take.
Concerning King James, you are absolutely right. The man had no business having a Bible translation named after him. Although he did fund the project.
The punchline of the story was, "Go and do the same." See, the scribe asked the question because he wanted to know who he had to love and who he didn't. A typical Jew at that time would have included the Samaritans at or near the top of the list of non-neighbors, and vice versa. Yet in answer to the question, Jesus tells a story about a Samaritan selflessly serving a Jew, then says "Go and do the same." Here is another example of this teaching:
"You have heard that it was said, 'You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,
so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? If you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect." -- Matthew 5:43-48
To answer your second objection, let me begin with a quote from OnyxFlame.
"We should act in a moral manner not because God tells us to or because we think it'll get us to heaven, but because it's the right thing to do."
This statement implies that there exists an objective standard of right and wrong, which is above everyone, even God. Most people seem to agree that certain things are right and other things are wrong, and that's just the way it is. But where does such a standard come from? The answer is that in fact it comes from God. He is the source of the standard. His perfect holiness is the model for what we ought to be like.
OnyxFlame,
You've noticed the seeming paradox between God being merciful and loving, yet just. This is in fact the question at the heart of the Gospel: How can a God of justice forgive sin? Moving on to the answer to this question...
Butterfly Dream,
If you were drowning and someone threw you a life preserver, would you say that they were forcing the gift on you and threatening you with death if you didn't take it? That's not a perfect analogy, but it's a start.
We all were condemned to Hell for our sin. That was the condition of the human race without God's plan of redemption. Yes, He was the one who condemned us -- and He was right to do so, because we all were vile, wicked sinners. Yet He did not want us all to perish. He wanted to forgive. So, He devised a plan by which we could be saved. You complain that in the course of this plan an innocent person suffered. In fact, an innocent person did suffer, and it was a scandal of divine proportions. The person who suffered was God Himself. Was this the only way? I have wrestled with that question before, and I haven't a clue. But it is the way that God in His infinite wisdom chose to take.
Concerning King James, you are absolutely right. The man had no business having a Bible translation named after him. Although he did fund the project.
Yes, JB, but it sold considerably less than his second, more popular book: "So you're going to hell..."
And who's to say that God isn't just an embodiment of moral principles that were inherent in reality before he existed? (Which leads to another thought: How can God create himself? Perhaps reality is founded on paradox and there's no point in trying to understand it.)
As for God "forcing" us to love him...he isn't, he's just giving us an ultimatum. If he REALLY wanted to force us to love him, we wouldn't even know we COULDN'T love him.
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