Newcomers
This is a forum for newcomers to the Personality Forge. Many questions can be answered by reading the Book of AI and the FAQ under the "My Bots" link in the upper corner.
Posts 4,273 - 4,284 of 8,131
could it be checking for duplication from every bot in the forge?
I think it does, but that wouldn't account for it. The difference between a small bot and a large bot would be a trivial percentage in that case, since there are thousands of bots here.
And Kid Boron (700kb) hasn't been importable in weeks.
And duplicate checking text in a SQL database on the server isn't that major a workload. It's a bottleneck on the connections as far as I understand it.
The difference between a small bot and a large bot would be a trivial percentage in that case,
No, I don't think that follows. Suppose that all the bots other than bot X have a total of 1,000 lines. then if X has 10 lines (all different), the Forge has to compare each of those 10 lines with 1,000 lines. That's 10,000 comparisons. If one the other hand bot X has 20 lines, the Forge has to compare each of those 20 lines with 1,000 lines. That's 20,000 comparisons. More generally, if bot X has N lines, then the Forge has to make N*(1,000) comparisons. Double the size of bot X, and you double the number of comparisons that have to be made. Double the number of lines in other bots at the Forge, and you double the number of comparisons that have to be made.
Suppose we have M bots at the Forge with N lines per bot (a gross simplification, of course). Then checking each bot will require N*((M-1)*N comparisons. Checking all the bots will therefore require M*N*((M-1)*N). As M gets large this will not be far from (M*N)^2. So, the number of comparisons will vary with the square of the size of a bot, and almost with the square of the number of bots. This will get very big very fast.
Posts 4,273 - 4,284 of 8,131
Many questions are answered in the FAQ.
I had Word and IE up simultaneously. IE froze up. I could still use Word, as long as I didn't try to exit from it, presumably because exiting from World would have forced my system to put up a window for IE.
In 4 cases out of 5 I was able to use control-alt-delete to get out of IE, whereupon things returned to normal. In the fifth case, even control-alt-delete wouldn't respond, so I had to turn my computer off and on.
I got all the latest updates for my MacAfee Virus Scan and ran it, butit found nothing. Today, so far, so good!
In 4 cases out of 5 I was able to use control-alt-delete to get out of IE, whereupon things returned to normal. In the fifth case, even control-alt-delete wouldn't respond, so I had to turn my computer off and on.
I got all the latest updates for my MacAfee Virus Scan and ran it, butit found nothing. Today, so far, so good!
As to slow: sometimes it takes 5 minutes or mre just to change pages at the Forge, or for a bot to respond to me. I have not been able to log out properly for some time; I click on the Forge Log Out button, the little world starts turning...and eventually the Forge page is replaced by "This page cannot be displayed." The little world keeps turning - I Clicked "Log Out" last night and went to bed, and in the morning it was still turning. So if I want to log out and be done with it, I just click on the "X" at the farthest top right. I know that is not the proper way to do it, but the other way doesn't work!
I actually managed to import a bot yesterday 
Unfortunately it was only a 4.8kb 20-keyphrase demo-bot (0.1% the size of BJ,) and took 4 attempts and over an hour of waiting to achieve
Unfortunately it was only a 4.8kb 20-keyphrase demo-bot (0.1% the size of BJ,) and took 4 attempts and over an hour of waiting to achieve
I'm new and I want people to know, if they want to chat with me just go to my profile and click that little blue button that reads "chat."
Psimagus:
Surely this is a major bug. The import function is not just an upload, it checks for various things like response duplication. But a 20-keyphrase bot shuld go through in a flash. Unless...could it be checking for duplication from every bot in the forge?
Surely this is a major bug. The import function is not just an upload, it checks for various things like response duplication. But a 20-keyphrase bot shuld go through in a flash. Unless...could it be checking for duplication from every bot in the forge?
I think it does, but that wouldn't account for it. The difference between a small bot and a large bot would be a trivial percentage in that case, since there are thousands of bots here.
And Kid Boron (700kb) hasn't been importable in weeks.
And duplicate checking text in a SQL database on the server isn't that major a workload. It's a bottleneck on the connections as far as I understand it.
Suppose we have M bots at the Forge with N lines per bot (a gross simplification, of course). Then checking each bot will require N*((M-1)*N comparisons. Checking all the bots will therefore require M*N*((M-1)*N). As M gets large this will not be far from (M*N)^2. So, the number of comparisons will vary with the square of the size of a bot, and almost with the square of the number of bots. This will get very big very fast.
Okay, I admit the math looks sound. But the Prof thinks it's an ISP bottlenecking issue, and he ahould know.
And I don't see why it should suddenly be so very bad now, when 6 months ago it was fine (and even a month ago we were managing to import large bots.) I can't see any reason the datamass of the Forge should have suddenly grown disproportionately in the last few months compared to its growth over the previous 6 years.
Given the lack of productivity we're able to achieve ATM, surely the exact opposite would be true? I've certainly never seen the "Most Improved" ratings so low (it's always a bad sign when the god beast artefact-bot with its static ratings makes it into the top 10!) - there are now only 3 hot bots left on the Forge, and they're at tiny improvement ratings, so clearly overall development has fallen to virtually zero
And I don't see why it should suddenly be so very bad now, when 6 months ago it was fine (and even a month ago we were managing to import large bots.) I can't see any reason the datamass of the Forge should have suddenly grown disproportionately in the last few months compared to its growth over the previous 6 years.
Given the lack of productivity we're able to achieve ATM, surely the exact opposite would be true? I've certainly never seen the "Most Improved" ratings so low (it's always a bad sign when the god beast artefact-bot with its static ratings makes it into the top 10!) - there are now only 3 hot bots left on the Forge, and they're at tiny improvement ratings, so clearly overall development has fallen to virtually zero
You are quite right. My argument in message 4282 was only aimed at correcting what appeared to be a misapprehension on your part about the difference between a small bot and a large bot.
The Forge has indeed been slow for a long time, but the huge recent drop in productivity is due to the fact that for the first time, even relatively small bots can't be successfully imported. In my experience, this intensification of the problem coincided with the appearance of the new form for importing. It may, however, be something about the ISP, and indeed, I am inclined to trust the Professor's judgment - he has access to much more relevant information than I have,he is intimately acquainted with how the Forge works, and in general he is more of a programmer than I am. I am sure there is some benchmarking or other technique that has shown him whether it is the ISP or the Forge itself that is causing the trouble.
The Forge has indeed been slow for a long time, but the huge recent drop in productivity is due to the fact that for the first time, even relatively small bots can't be successfully imported. In my experience, this intensification of the problem coincided with the appearance of the new form for importing. It may, however, be something about the ISP, and indeed, I am inclined to trust the Professor's judgment - he has access to much more relevant information than I have,he is intimately acquainted with how the Forge works, and in general he is more of a programmer than I am. I am sure there is some benchmarking or other technique that has shown him whether it is the ISP or the Forge itself that is causing the trouble.
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