Doghead's Cosmic Bar

that is simply action/reaction or instinct reactions. Anyone up for a round of drinks?

dj, isn't how humans live their everyday lives based on action/reaction... ex: how i am acting towards my reaction of what you have stated.

so does that also mean that the actions stated in the bible of how angels and devils have acted was simply also action/reaction... does my point need more examples to be conceivable? i am not here to change your mind, just to open it.

My mind has been opened, like I mean you have the choice of responding or not, you have the choice of posting what you think or what would make someone else think they are right, and you have the choice of posting something totally unrelated. These are the Proactive choices.

Animals have choices too. If someone beats up a cat, the cat has the choice of running away and living in the woods or the streets or someone else's house, or getting mean and scratching the hell out of them all the time, or just sitting there cowering. (Anyone who says cats don't have unique personalities is full of bull too.)

No, that's instict. The cat learns that people mean beating up.
(Dangit I'm getting boxed into a corner)

Who givss a flammig rat's fuwwy wittwe asz?

I think animals are rather dependant on human that's why they would rather live under someone's roof then lingering in the street. But I do think that they have free will.

Actually, animals are quite independant or at least most of them were before humans domesticated them. It's natural human instinct to believe that other species can not live without human intervention. How people can believe such a thing when humans are the ones causing the extinction of a vast majority of species I don't know.

ok dj what i am desperately trying to open in your mind, is that the comparisson between what you say is free will to humans and just plain insticnt is the exact same damn thing. so either humans have no free will and we are all just running on instinct gas, or everything has free will.

ok take onyx's cat example, if you were beat up in school a lot, is it instinct to become a hermit or mean or take it out on people, or to grow past that and become a nice person despite how shitty people have treated you? it sounds like free will to me either way, because no matter how YOU respond or react either choice is only up to YOU and no one forces you to make either decision.

just like the cat getting beat up, you are just stepping into its' shoes allowing yourself to see throw its' point of view. the cat itself chooses whether to find shelter with a human household (like my eddie) and become the most loving creature it can be, or choose to be an alley cat that is hardened by its' OWN choices.

the next thing you will tell me is that only humans have feelings too right? and that humans are the only creatures capible of communication...

Read "The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People" Habit 1: Be Proactive, not Reactive

It describes the difference better than I can

isn't making your last statement being reactive and not proactive... oh to the irony.

i am just asking you to prove it to me that other creatures are not capable of free will. when you can prove it to me in a convincing manner as to why you beleive this then i can drop it, i have given you examples all you have given me are excuses to back up your beliefs...show me some proof as to why other creatures are not capable of free will, open my mind.