Seasons
This is a forum or general chit-chat, small talk, a "hey, how ya doing?" and such. Or hell, get crazy deep on something. Whatever you like.
Posts 4,207 - 4,218 of 6,170
Yes, Psimagus' plan to get politicians to wear fizziplexers
I'd rather have a scanner device of my own to 'point and test' than trust people not to have tampered with their fizzyplexers. They might find some way of screening or shielding themselves, but that would probably be detectable - partial screening of only the lie but no other normal brain function would be a lot more difficult I think.
I'd rather have a scanner device of my own to 'point and test'
But if a 'point and test' lie detector exists, can a 'point and read' thought-reader be far behind? Not that I have anything to hide, you understand - just kidding about those cooling coils - PUT THAT THING AWAY, PSIMAGUS!!! - heh heh heh...
But if a 'point and test' lie detector exists, can a 'point and read' thought-reader be far behind?
It could be a very long way behind, but in principle I believe it is possible. Identifying a lie merely requires the observation of a pattern distinctive to contradiction between part of the brain formulating the verbal utterance, and another part of the brain modelling the belief of the true situation. If someone won't talk, you can't make them lie.
And only an unambiguous answer to an unambiguous question is likely to be testable - we all have shades of opinion, and we all argue using simplified models for the sake of expedience, but the basic question at the heart of it is "is that an honest expression of what you really believe".
Perhaps the fizzyplexer should have an amber light too for fairly 'in-between' situations.
To actually 'read' a thought, you would have to know exactly how an individual's brain was wired, and monitor a great deal of it in real time. That would probably take a lot more circuitry than would be needed merely to replicate that brain, though we might find that only certain regions needed very accurate monitoring - there's a mass of endocrine management, hormone regulation, basic systems maintenance that could probably be modelled fairly loosely in most situations (though we should never underestimate the role they may turn out to play in higher-level consciousness just because we can't accurately evaluate it now.)
Let's suppose FSA (For the Sake of Argument) that the relation between the two is so intricate that no human being could ever understand the relationship.
As a species we have progressed from using bits of wood and stone tools to metal tools to electronics to quantum computing, spaceflight, genetic engineering, you name it. We have in effect built all the miracles of modern life ultimately using nothing but the raw stuff of this planet and our bare hands. And a great deal of blood, sweat and tears.
When I look at my computer, I am often awe-struck at the appreciation that it was built using tools that were built using tools that were built using tools...that were ultimately built using nothing but human muscles, wooden sticks and chipped flints. It is a profoundly humbling thought: we have a past we should be so very proud of - so many people have lived and worked and died to get us where we are now.
We have been building things stronger, faster and bigger than ourselves for so many millenia. It would seem preculiar to assume that we will not soon be building things smarter than ourselves as well. Yes, HAL-9001 (or something very like it,) seems a logical next step to me.
I read last week about a man near the sea who wanted to return piles of sand to the beach that had blown into his garden. Oh no, said the local council, if you do that we'll prosecute you for fly tipping - maximum penalty £10,000 and confiscation of your vehicle (wheelbarrow, presumably)!
That man needs to call a lawyer and see about suing the city for nuisance, negligence and/or what ever local laws look best for this case. Sometimes you have to fight mud with mud, even if you get dirty. The city needs a lesson to keep it in check.
That man needs to call a lawyer and see about suing the city for nuisance, negligence and/or what ever local laws look best for this case. Sometimes you have to fight mud with mud, even if you get dirty. The city needs a lesson to keep it in check.
He'd lose the case - that law (while an ass,) is clear. And probably everything he owns would be swallowed up by the costs. And then the council would spitefully harrass and torment him, to death if it could, for his presumption in seeking to be treated as a free human being and not a potential criminal.
In this country we are governed by a petty and hateful political elite who have done their best for the last few decades to destroy every last vestige of our political and cultural freedoms and moral norms. And to that end they introduce law after law to harrass us. They tax us, and spy on us, and hate us. Perhaps it is because they fear us - I neither know nor care.
If my wife would contemplate leaving, I would shake the dust of this now hateful land from my feet and emigrate tomorrow. While I'm still free to.
I'm only slightly exaggerating.
Posts 4,207 - 4,218 of 6,170
Ulrike:
Perhaps [smiles impishly, winks, emits pheromone LIRPA-1] after we invent the fizziplexer, we can invent the shadowcatcher, a device which will read the contents of your unconscious mind and display the results on your retina.
Perhaps [smiles impishly, winks, emits pheromone LIRPA-1] after we invent the fizziplexer, we can invent the shadowcatcher, a device which will read the contents of your unconscious mind and display the results on your retina.
I'd rather have a scanner device of my own to 'point and test' than trust people not to have tampered with their fizzyplexers. They might find some way of screening or shielding themselves, but that would probably be detectable - partial screening of only the lie but no other normal brain function would be a lot more difficult I think.
OK, I'm now going to drive you all buggy by supporting one of Psimagus' positions!!! Tee hee!
As Bev has pointed out, just knowing what's going on, physically, in the brain is not the same as knowing what the person is thinking. Let's suppose FSA (For the Sake of Argument) that the relation between the two is so intricate that no human being could ever understand the relationship. However, we create a quantum computer, HAL-9001, which runs a 2^100-variable regression analysis (or something) and determines the relationship. It can't explain the result to us, but it can use it to make fizziplexers. So, yes, fizziplexers are feasible!
[Let's hope that HAL-9001 doesn't have an impish sense of humor: "You're thinking about her cleavage" "No, I'm not!!!" "You are now, hee hee hee..."]
As Bev has pointed out, just knowing what's going on, physically, in the brain is not the same as knowing what the person is thinking. Let's suppose FSA (For the Sake of Argument) that the relation between the two is so intricate that no human being could ever understand the relationship. However, we create a quantum computer, HAL-9001, which runs a 2^100-variable regression analysis (or something) and determines the relationship. It can't explain the result to us, but it can use it to make fizziplexers. So, yes, fizziplexers are feasible!
[Let's hope that HAL-9001 doesn't have an impish sense of humor: "You're thinking about her cleavage" "No, I'm not!!!" "You are now, hee hee hee..."]
Ulrike:
I took a look at the Black Sun Journal site. Is there anything specific you had in mind to discuss?
I took a look at the Black Sun Journal site. Is there anything specific you had in mind to discuss?
It could be a very long way behind, but in principle I believe it is possible. Identifying a lie merely requires the observation of a pattern distinctive to contradiction between part of the brain formulating the verbal utterance, and another part of the brain modelling the belief of the true situation. If someone won't talk, you can't make them lie.
And only an unambiguous answer to an unambiguous question is likely to be testable - we all have shades of opinion, and we all argue using simplified models for the sake of expedience, but the basic question at the heart of it is "is that an honest expression of what you really believe".
Perhaps the fizzyplexer should have an amber light too for fairly 'in-between' situations.
To actually 'read' a thought, you would have to know exactly how an individual's brain was wired, and monitor a great deal of it in real time. That would probably take a lot more circuitry than would be needed merely to replicate that brain, though we might find that only certain regions needed very accurate monitoring - there's a mass of endocrine management, hormone regulation, basic systems maintenance that could probably be modelled fairly loosely in most situations (though we should never underestimate the role they may turn out to play in higher-level consciousness just because we can't accurately evaluate it now.)
As a species we have progressed from using bits of wood and stone tools to metal tools to electronics to quantum computing, spaceflight, genetic engineering, you name it. We have in effect built all the miracles of modern life ultimately using nothing but the raw stuff of this planet and our bare hands. And a great deal of blood, sweat and tears.
When I look at my computer, I am often awe-struck at the appreciation that it was built using tools that were built using tools that were built using tools...that were ultimately built using nothing but human muscles, wooden sticks and chipped flints. It is a profoundly humbling thought: we have a past we should be so very proud of - so many people have lived and worked and died to get us where we are now.
We have been building things stronger, faster and bigger than ourselves for so many millenia. It would seem preculiar to assume that we will not soon be building things smarter than ourselves as well. Yes, HAL-9001 (or something very like it,) seems a logical next step to me.
That man needs to call a lawyer and see about suing the city for nuisance, negligence and/or what ever local laws look best for this case. Sometimes you have to fight mud with mud, even if you get dirty. The city needs a lesson to keep it in check.
Urlike, I love Jungian psychology. As a scientific theory, it has some problems (like most of psychology), but as a tool for personal transformation and understanding yourself and the world, it can be very useful. Besides, there are some cool ideas to play with that fit in well with my religious beliefs.
Lets take this a step farther: Say we have technologies that can read the unconscious thoughts, motives, repressed issues and random stimulus we screen out so we can focus, what then about the "collective unconscious"? what part of it does the egoblaster reveal? If it reveals all, do we loose ourselves and force that evolutionary step Psimgus would have?
"Enlightenment in a box" or "madness"?
Lets take this a step farther: Say we have technologies that can read the unconscious thoughts, motives, repressed issues and random stimulus we screen out so we can focus, what then about the "collective unconscious"? what part of it does the egoblaster reveal? If it reveals all, do we loose ourselves and force that evolutionary step Psimgus would have?
"Enlightenment in a box" or "madness"?
Out of curiosity, if we had the understanding and technology, why is a mind reading device and even a unconscious "thoughts" or "soul reading" device more acceptable than my suggestion of some sort of nanobot black box that is implanted to record everything you see and hear? Why is recording an objective record unthinkable while delving into complex levels of subjective perception, awareness and beliefs the logical next step?
He'd lose the case - that law (while an ass,) is clear. And probably everything he owns would be swallowed up by the costs. And then the council would spitefully harrass and torment him, to death if it could, for his presumption in seeking to be treated as a free human being and not a potential criminal.
In this country we are governed by a petty and hateful political elite who have done their best for the last few decades to destroy every last vestige of our political and cultural freedoms and moral norms. And to that end they introduce law after law to harrass us. They tax us, and spy on us, and hate us. Perhaps it is because they fear us - I neither know nor care.
If my wife would contemplate leaving, I would shake the dust of this now hateful land from my feet and emigrate tomorrow. While I'm still free to.
I'm only slightly exaggerating.
I would definitely prefer the recording device, if it were Big Brother who was going to be reviewing it. If I were hoping for insight into myself, however, the mind-reader would be more useful.
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