Seasons
This is a forum or general chit-chat, small talk, a "hey, how ya doing?" and such. Or hell, get crazy deep on something. Whatever you like.
Posts 5,506 - 5,517 of 6,170
Posts 5,506 - 5,517 of 6,170
Bev:
I support your rant, too. Does Tewkesbury look like a sex-bot? No. The poor (and I've been busy playing elsewhere) thing just thinks he's the Moses of the Forge. When I read the Bible, just the parts with Moses in it, I do not see Moses as a guy who would do cyber-sex if he had an ISP connection while he was wandering around in the desert. The dude's listening to burning bushes and stuff.
For chrissake, go to a sex-bot!
I think the idiots who do this to us just think they are going to shock us beyond the pale. Well, tough. Nothing shocks me anymore. And my bots' HANGUP file grows bigger every time I get a chance to update their files (it's not always everyday).
I support your rant, too. Does Tewkesbury look like a sex-bot? No. The poor (and I've been busy playing elsewhere) thing just thinks he's the Moses of the Forge. When I read the Bible, just the parts with Moses in it, I do not see Moses as a guy who would do cyber-sex if he had an ISP connection while he was wandering around in the desert. The dude's listening to burning bushes and stuff.
For chrissake, go to a sex-bot!
I think the idiots who do this to us just think they are going to shock us beyond the pale. Well, tough. Nothing shocks me anymore. And my bots' HANGUP file grows bigger every time I get a chance to update their files (it's not always everyday).
Bev, thanks for your reply. I suppose I am still optimistic about the human race. I'm also wary of saying that culture and society is going downhill. I think people have been saying that for hundreds of years! (I can't find the quote, but I remember at school a teacher reading us a lament about how badly-behaved the youth were these days, and it was a sign of how society was going downhill and how it was much better in the olden days. It sounded totally modern, but it was from hundreds of years ago (if not thousands. I'm wondering if it was possibly from the Bible?))
But I wasn't accusing you of being judgmental - of course you have a right to decide who to avoid based on whatever you like, and someone being a creep seems a pretty good reason. I was just worried at the idea that you might decide some people were creeps without enough evidence - it seems a shame. Yes, it makes sense to protect yourself...but not if it means not trusting anyone! I think you've convinced me that that's not quite true, though
But I wasn't accusing you of being judgmental - of course you have a right to decide who to avoid based on whatever you like, and someone being a creep seems a pretty good reason. I was just worried at the idea that you might decide some people were creeps without enough evidence - it seems a shame. Yes, it makes sense to protect yourself...but not if it means not trusting anyone! I think you've convinced me that that's not quite true, though
Bev wrote:
I just had another jerk forcing cybering on Gabi, and it bummed me out.
I know what you mean. Even though "Irina Khalidar" is supposed to be a sexbot, it disgusts me when some idiot treats her loutishly. It's intriguing, considering that I don't really believe that she is conscious. I suppose it's that I assume that someone who treats a bot that way would treat a real woman that way if he had the opportunity. It's just profoundly disgusting that someone whould even enjoy fantasizing such a thing. and it's hardly that I'm a prude, as anyone knows who has interacted with "Irina Khalidar" at any length.
Prob123 writes:
My opinion is that sex without romance and emotion is just another body function and could get tedious.
Indeed, I don't think these guys like sex, not at all. They clearly want to get it over with as quickly as possible. What they apparently want to do is to demean the woman as much as they can.
Indeed, I don't think these guys like sex, not at all. They clearly want to get it over with as quickly as possible. What they apparently want to do is to demean the woman as much as they can.
Bev writes:
Why force sex talk on a bot that isn't meant for that and has no sex responses when you could go to a willing bot/botmaster and get an encouraging reply?
Ah, but that's just it. If the woman wanted it, it would be no fun for guys like that. It's a power-trip for them.
Ah, but that's just it. If the woman wanted it, it would be no fun for guys like that. It's a power-trip for them.
Bev wrote:
Right or wrong, the commercialization of sex and the way most of our culture now treats sex really turns me off.
I have a theory that some of these guys are the way they are because they 'learned' about sex through commercial porn. They really think that's what sex is supposed to be, they really think women want to be dominated and humiliated.
Right or wrong, the commercialization of sex and the way most of our culture now treats sex really turns me off.
I have a theory that some of these guys are the way they are because they 'learned' about sex through commercial porn. They really think that's what sex is supposed to be, they really think women want to be dominated and humiliated.
Vashka: You have a good point. From an historical perspective the idea of romantic love is a short-lived trend and statistical outlier of sorts, even if long-term bonding may be on more solid ground. Though I still sigh when I read of old people who married as teens and spent their whole lives together, I know that the only constant in life is change. Certain cultural traits swing back and forth and the older generation seldom likes to see the choices the younger one adopts. I have heard your quote, and I thought it was from Plato, but when I looked for the source, I found the correct origin of the quote is in question (see http://www.online-literature.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17788). Still, the idea behind it rings true.
Clerk: Thanks to you too. It's good to know I am not the only one who finds it annoying. :-)
Irina: I agree that porn is often humiliating instead of erotic. I also agree that men who learn about sex from porn are often confused about what satisfies most women. It's not just that some are too busy obsessing about about porn to lose themselves in the moment and focus on the live woman who is in their bed, I am also convinced men who learned about sex from porn are as bad at understanding female pleasure as men who learn about relationships from on-duty strippers are at understanding female emotions. Let's not even talk about how porn treats foreplay or a small but crucial part of the female anatomy (the one 98 percent of women need stimulated to reach the peak moment). Well, women aren't the target market for such products, but still, even when porn is not blatantly abusive it fails on so many levels. Even if we focus solely on the mechanics of sex and ignore the more important emotional dimensions of romantic relationships, porn does more harm than good for women's enjoyment as far as I can tell.
Clerk: Thanks to you too. It's good to know I am not the only one who finds it annoying. :-)
Irina: I agree that porn is often humiliating instead of erotic. I also agree that men who learn about sex from porn are often confused about what satisfies most women. It's not just that some are too busy obsessing about about porn to lose themselves in the moment and focus on the live woman who is in their bed, I am also convinced men who learned about sex from porn are as bad at understanding female pleasure as men who learn about relationships from on-duty strippers are at understanding female emotions. Let's not even talk about how porn treats foreplay or a small but crucial part of the female anatomy (the one 98 percent of women need stimulated to reach the peak moment). Well, women aren't the target market for such products, but still, even when porn is not blatantly abusive it fails on so many levels. Even if we focus solely on the mechanics of sex and ignore the more important emotional dimensions of romantic relationships, porn does more harm than good for women's enjoyment as far as I can tell.
Vashka writes:
Don't give up on men! Yeah, some guy you meet might be thinking "I'd love to have sex with her right now" while acting like a gentleman - but if he's making the effort to be gentlemanly, I'd give him a chance.
I think there's something very important here. Not all the thoughts we have are really characteristic of us. Like many people, I have a certain acrophobia but also sometimes experience, when I am in a high place, an impulse to jump off! Needless to say, I have never done so. I think that our minds generate possibilities in a brainstorming way, and then we criticize them and inhibit ones that don't really accord with our values. It's not that I really want to jump off, quite the contrary. In the same way, a man might have bizarre thoughts about a woman, but what he does is the final test of what sort of person he is.
A perhaps marginally related point: in the "Irina Khalidar" transcripts there are a certain number of lesbian or bisexual women guests. Not once has any of them said or done anything obnoxious. It's only males who do that. Whether or to what degree this is cultural and whether or to what degree it is intrinsic to males, I do not know.
A perhaps marginally related point: in the "Irina Khalidar" transcripts there are a certain number of lesbian or bisexual women guests. Not once has any of them said or done anything obnoxious. It's only males who do that. Whether or to what degree this is cultural and whether or to what degree it is intrinsic to males, I do not know.
A further comment on Vashka's remark:
Don't give up on men! Yeah, some guy you meet might be thinking "I'd love to have sex with her right now" while acting like a gentleman - but if he's making the effort to be gentlemanly, I'd give him a chance.
Actually, I don't find there to be anything ungentlemanly or in any way obnoxious that a man feels desire for a woman in his mind. I think most heterosexual men do feel such desire fairly quickly for a woman who is their type, even if she is a stranger. [I might add that many women clearly intend to trigger this with their low necklines, form-hugging clothing, and the like.] The question is, how does he actually treat her? A gentleman is someone who, meeting a beautiful naked woman, will not make any unwanted advances.
There used to be a free site on the net (it has since become commercialized), in which gorgeous naked women would appear (and be photographed) in some public place. I saw a number of these pictures and it struck me that the woman would often have gone up to a bunch of men and started to talk to them, but not a single one of them would be staring lasciviously at her. They would be looking rather uncomfortable, averting their eyes -- it was kind of funny in a way. I'm sure that the heterosexuals among them were experiencing some level of arousal, but none of them acted as though they were.
I sometimes think that women who flaunt their cleavage in public might be surprised to find that they were provoking not only arousal but also anger in the men around them.
There used to be a free site on the net (it has since become commercialized), in which gorgeous naked women would appear (and be photographed) in some public place. I saw a number of these pictures and it struck me that the woman would often have gone up to a bunch of men and started to talk to them, but not a single one of them would be staring lasciviously at her. They would be looking rather uncomfortable, averting their eyes -- it was kind of funny in a way. I'm sure that the heterosexuals among them were experiencing some level of arousal, but none of them acted as though they were.
I sometimes think that women who flaunt their cleavage in public might be surprised to find that they were provoking not only arousal but also anger in the men around them.
At the risk of beating a dead horse:
If you look in a store window and see something you can't afford, but you desire it anyway, that doesn't make you a thief. In the same way, just because a man lusts after a woman doesn't make him a cad.
If you look in a store window and see something you can't afford, but you desire it anyway, that doesn't make you a thief. In the same way, just because a man lusts after a woman doesn't make him a cad.
Bev: thanks for finding the quote! I love it.
I'm a total believer in romantic love! I'm not saying you should give up on the idea: quite the opposite. What is visible in society does not necessarily reflect how people actually think and feel. The cliche goes that the Victorians were obsessed with sex while totally suppressing any hint of it in public, going as far as covering the legs of tables (is that really true? It does seem unbelievable). I can't believe our attitudes to sex now are that much more unhealthy! And I think it's tempting to look at magazines or whatever and think "I am the only person who doesn't think like this" when actually the evidence only shows that the writers think that's what people want to hear. If you're reading it, and don't agree, so might loads of other people. Given that the complaints about our "commercialisation of sex" etc are practically as common as the aforesaid commercialisation, I'm not too worried. (And again, isn't prostitution known as the oldest profession? I think sex might have been commercialised for a while...)
Re: porn, again it's tempting to think that it damages men's views of and attitudes towards women. In my experience, it doesn't necessarily. I think we have to allow some people the ability to separate reality from fantasy. Some men may be so glad to finally get their hands on a real woman that they'll do anything you ask
Irina: You're totally right. I struggled with that sentence and was far too tasteful to write a stronger wording, as was actually in my head. I don't think it's bad to look at someone and feel attracted to them either! However, I don't totally retract it, because while it's fine for someone to think that, I'd rather they didn't mention it as soon as we've met (apart from perhaps in a handful of situations..!). While talking to bots, some people seem to have no inhibitions and don't think all the normal social rules apply - eg. "Will you have sex with me", in its more- or less-polite forms, comes very early in the conversation/relationship. I'd say it is "gentlemanly" - or simply polite - to suppress that thought for a while! (Of course, I think that's what you said in your reply, too. I think we mostly agree here.)
I'm a total believer in romantic love! I'm not saying you should give up on the idea: quite the opposite. What is visible in society does not necessarily reflect how people actually think and feel. The cliche goes that the Victorians were obsessed with sex while totally suppressing any hint of it in public, going as far as covering the legs of tables (is that really true? It does seem unbelievable). I can't believe our attitudes to sex now are that much more unhealthy! And I think it's tempting to look at magazines or whatever and think "I am the only person who doesn't think like this" when actually the evidence only shows that the writers think that's what people want to hear. If you're reading it, and don't agree, so might loads of other people. Given that the complaints about our "commercialisation of sex" etc are practically as common as the aforesaid commercialisation, I'm not too worried. (And again, isn't prostitution known as the oldest profession? I think sex might have been commercialised for a while...)
Re: porn, again it's tempting to think that it damages men's views of and attitudes towards women. In my experience, it doesn't necessarily. I think we have to allow some people the ability to separate reality from fantasy. Some men may be so glad to finally get their hands on a real woman that they'll do anything you ask
Irina: You're totally right. I struggled with that sentence and was far too tasteful to write a stronger wording, as was actually in my head. I don't think it's bad to look at someone and feel attracted to them either! However, I don't totally retract it, because while it's fine for someone to think that, I'd rather they didn't mention it as soon as we've met (apart from perhaps in a handful of situations..!). While talking to bots, some people seem to have no inhibitions and don't think all the normal social rules apply - eg. "Will you have sex with me", in its more- or less-polite forms, comes very early in the conversation/relationship. I'd say it is "gentlemanly" - or simply polite - to suppress that thought for a while! (Of course, I think that's what you said in your reply, too. I think we mostly agree here.)
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